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![[Post New]](/Sysforums/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif) 16/12/2008 23:06:27
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uniti
SysAider
Joined: 16/06/2008
Messages: 21
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This has got to be the most annoying message that I get from SysAid.
I might be writing a Novel in the Notes textbox in for an SR then someone else updates the request and hits the apply button, then my Novel is gone.
Could something be done about this, and if there is something in the pipeline could you please advise?
Thank you for the work you are doing to make SysAid better to use each day.
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17/12/2008 02:44:13
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Joseph Zargari
VP Customer Relations
Joined: 26/03/2006
Messages: 516
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uniti,
This message is intended to prevent a situation in which two 'triggers' (could be users, escalation rules, email integration and everything else that can change a service request) modify the service request together.
For example, if you and another administrator go into a service request that has no subject and both wish to change the subject, the first one succeeds and the second one will get the message you are talking about.
In some cases, database corruption or misconfiguration could cause the system to show that message on every attempt to save. If this is the case on your environment, please go ahead and try to save a service request. After it shows the error message, open the ...\SysAidServer\root\WEB-INF\logs\sysaid.log file on the server and copy the lines that are relevant to the time of the modification attempt. Paste it back here and I'll try to figure out the problem.
Joseph.
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17/12/2008 06:22:13
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techguy
SysAid Mod
Joined: 11/06/2008
Messages: 1506
Location: England
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Joseph, I think the poster uniti is not saying he is currently experiencing a problem where he is unable to update a particular record,
I think he is asking if there is a way you can change sysaid in the future to save the text that he has just been typing in before the message came up,
reload the updated record with the changes the other person/system made,
and then offer a way of appending/merging the text into the field he was in the middle of updating.
of course I may have misunderstood what uniti is asking!
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17/12/2008 06:59:36
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Joseph Zargari
VP Customer Relations
Joined: 26/03/2006
Messages: 516
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techguy wrote:I think he is asking if there is a way you can change sysaid in the future to save the text that he has just been typing in
I guess it could be what uniti meant.
uniti, would you can to clarify?
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17/12/2008 20:29:34
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uniti
SysAider
Joined: 16/06/2008
Messages: 21
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Yes I understand that you want to preseve the database and prevent any corruption, but my issue is that the data I am entering is NOT being preserved if someone updates the service request before I do. Also my hands aren't being preserved as I have to type twice as much data into in the system as a result of this issue.
I am asking that if a new method could be used to hold the data I am updating so it can be saved after someone else has already updated the service request. I understand that having a web-based GUI is the main obstacle here with having concurrent database updates in Sysaid.
I would appreciate any ideas that could be suggested to be able to change Sysaid so we do not have this dilemma.
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17/12/2008 21:31:11
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Obelix
SysAid Wiz
Joined: 12/06/2008
Messages: 903
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The simplest thing to do is... write your novel in notepad. When you're finished, open the SR paste it on the notes and save it. Badabing badaboom... in and out. If somebody beat you to it... you still got the notepad.
What you're asking is not simple because in computing... it's a physical law that only one process can access one data location at a time. The multitasking feature so overly advertised is achieved by shifting process through cpu's idle time. The effect is similar to how neon light appear to emits continuous light while actually it's strobing.
That's why in critical system, database works in a "all or nothing" mode. You can imagine if what happens to you happens to Bank's ATM machines.
I say simply dissallow people to edit SR that has been open somewhere else. They can view but editing should completely be lock by the system.
That said...
Uniti... you might want to consider solving this problem non-technically i.e. restructure your organization and process.
SysAid provide built-in mechanism to prevent simultaneous access to sr such as assigning admin, routing, escalating... and so on.
This is what I apply in my site. Even though it is possible to edit the field when an admin gets a pop up of this message he/she must leave that SR alone immediately cause it means somebody else is working on it. I don't like too many people working on the same problem either.
It is possible for group of admin to be forced to work on same sr, but only the assigned admin updates the SR. The colaboration is done through the messaging (read:e-mail) in that very sr.
But it's your call of course...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 17/12/2008 21:34:05
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18/12/2008 03:53:19
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adrian_gazibar
SysAider
Joined: 04/07/2008
Messages: 38
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"The simplest thing to do is... write your novel in notepad....What you're asking is not simple because in computing"
This is not a solution. The solution has been invented together with the first network database systems. It is called "locking". Locking fields, records even tables during certain events (like editing).
Not hard to do: a flag attached to each record which is going to be tested before allowing editing and if it allows it, prevents others from doing the same action
I think the issue is related to the continous refreshing process.
Ilient has to fix that for sure. It is not something to remain in this "workaround" stage
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18/12/2008 05:51:15
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Obelix
SysAid Wiz
Joined: 12/06/2008
Messages: 903
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adrian_gazibar wrote:This is not a solution. The solution has been invented together with the first network database systems. It is called "locking". Locking fields, records even tables during certain events (like editing).
Not hard to do: a flag attached to each record which is going to be tested before allowing editing and if it allows it, prevents others from doing the same action.
Yes.. yessssssss.
And SysAid already behave like this. That's why it ignored the second person's input.
adrian_gazibar wrote:I think the issue is related to the continous refreshing process.
Ilient has to fix that for sure. It is not something to remain in this "workaround" stage
Precisely my point. Insisting this feature will have consequences which I personally think is unnecessary.
My solution however primitive is efective and needs no waiting. Even when measured by overhead the only extra keystrokes are the copy paste and saving.
Don't get me wrong.
Of course if Ilient somehow find a win-win solution to this I'll join you in celebration and will take advantage of it in a heart beat. All I'm saying is... the quality of your service should not be hurt by this.
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18/12/2008 09:48:00
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Joseph Zargari
VP Customer Relations
Joined: 26/03/2006
Messages: 516
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I definitely agree with all of you. Personally, I'm typing my emails in a word processor and then paste it into the message box. This is not a solution, but a workable workaround.
I will ask our product manager to address this himself, and also create a feature request for this.
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18/12/2008 10:30:32
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Oded M
VP Product
Joined: 28/05/2008
Messages: 892
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Hi,
I have reviewed this issue and there is no right or wrong here - it is a matter of approach:
Some Helpdesk solutions or any other application open SR/records in view mode , and you need to click the edit icon to change. once you click the edit icon - the record is locked and nobody else can click the edit button - he will get a message - record is being edited by someone else - just like when you try to open a Word file or Excel file from a network and it is open by someone else - it opens in read-only mode.
SysAid opens all SR-s in edit mode by default - there is no special operation you need to perform to edit the data - this is the reason situations like this may happen.
I suggest the following :
In case SysAid encounters the above scenario - it will pop-up the same message, but keep all the data that you entered on the screen - the message will also instruct you that if you wish not to loose your changes you should copy them. in most cases re-entering the Service request will allow you to paste/update your changes.
I will see that this development is added to SysAid to make our life a bit easier in this specific aspect..... :oops:
Oded
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18/12/2008 11:47:01
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techguy
SysAid Mod
Joined: 11/06/2008
Messages: 1506
Location: England
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Oded thats sounds like a good start towards solving the problem, but what if you have edited more than one field though,? say the notes, resolution & and an activity, how would you know which ones you need to cut and paste? or are you suggesting you would then have to open up notepad and paste all 3 changes to there, before pasting them back.
I know this not a trivial one to solve programming wise ...
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18/12/2008 20:09:53
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Obelix
SysAid Wiz
Joined: 12/06/2008
Messages: 903
Offline
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The excel analogy is excellent.
That.... I think is the way to go. Pop up explaining why user can't access the sr and provide option just in case he/she just wanna read the sr.
Oded M wrote:
I suggest the following :
In case SysAid encounters the above scenario - it will pop-up the same message, but keep all the data that you entered on the screen - the message will also instruct you that if you wish not to loose your changes you should copy them. in most cases re-entering the Service request will allow you to paste/update your changes.
I'm not sure I get this.
You want to provide something like outlook's draft on SysAid ?
If the copy pasting is manual, Tech Guy got an obviously good point.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 18/12/2008 20:14:30
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28/12/2008 23:14:02
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uniti
SysAider
Joined: 16/06/2008
Messages: 21
Offline
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Thanks guys,
I was more thinking along the line for the Notes having a redundant field in the database "holding area" for any data entered into the 'Add Note' box so when a note is entered in at the same time someone else has entered a note it will update the SR notes in a queue like fashion, keeping the database principle of only 1 data entry at a time and not losing any data being entered.
I'm not too sure if the same logic could be applied to the other fields e.g. Activity time, Resolution, Title, etc.
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29/12/2008 01:58:23
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Oded M
VP Product
Joined: 28/05/2008
Messages: 892
Offline
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I think that the notes and other long text fields are most painful ones to lose - and it is worth trying to save them somewhere or at lease on the screen.
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29/12/2008 21:33:12
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Obelix
SysAid Wiz
Joined: 12/06/2008
Messages: 903
Offline
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*shaking head*
I still can't imagine a scenario where an sr needs more than one admin in charge. But I shall give credits to everybody.
Oded, if this is going to production, I want it provided as an option which can be turn on or off application wide. Something like those settings in admin's permission tab.
SysAid, least to me, is not just a tool like a calculator. It's a management platform. And the later, again least to me, has a higher priority than the former...
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